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Interviewer: All right, so we'll just get started with it. What's your name?

Senitila : So my name is Senitila Tutone

 

Interviewer: Where are you from and what was it like growing up there?

 

Senitila: I was born and raised in Tonga. It's one of the islands in the Pacific. I lived there until I was 17 years old, before I moved here. So, most of my primary and high school education was from there. I left when I was in form 6, which is the year 12 in the New Zealand educational system. But growing up in Tonga compared to New Zealand was very different. We didn't have much, and I think one of the great things about growing up in the islands is that you basically know everyone in your village and everyone around you. You go to the neighbors house, stay there, and have food there, have meals and everyone and sort of interacts with each other. 
One of the main things when I came here to New Zealand was that everyone was confined to their own homes. You'd have to travel to see family and stuff like that. So that was one of the differences. The other thing to me was the language, because growing up in the islands, Tongan was my first language and so having to move here and learn to adjust and speak English and that becoming the primary language was a little bit different. It was very different in terms of pace as well, so it's very chill in the islands and you don't really usually get in too much trouble if you're late and things like that whereas here, everything is time driven.

I think those are one of the main things from the top of my head in terms of how it was. You know, my grandfather had a plantation and he taught us to a plant, Taro, cassava  and plant pumpkin/ He taught all of us how to do that, whereas in here you buy stuff off the supermarket and but we learn to grow them so I can grow stuff *laughs*.

 

Interviewer: Yeah, it's funny to talk about that, we have Jorge and Adriana coming from Colombia, they said that it was super stressful there and coming here it was laid back. So I guess there's like levels of stress depending where you come from.

 

Senitila: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think there's different stresses like stresses in the islands is different. It's chilled and but you weren't really sort of confined to financial stuff cause you could live off the land. If you don't have money to pay your rent, youre homeless. In Tonga you don't pay mortgage, you get gifted land. The nobles own the land in Tonga and they gift you that piece of land. And so you don't pay mortgage or anything like that. If anything, all you pay for is electricity and water bills. But you know you don't have any money for food. You go to the Bush and get stuff from there and get fish from the sea. But here there is a lot of financial stuff required here in New Zealand

 

Interviewer: Would you say you enjoyed your childhood?

 

Senitila: It's just so carefree and cause we, you know, as I said, it's your own little village. So I come from a village called Havelu which is probably 10 minute drive from the capital city of Tonga, which is Nuku'alofa. And we literally knew every single person in, in our village. Yeah, you'd go home, go and play, and you wouldn't come home till late. It wouldn't matter. You'd be there with friends, and you know everyone trusted each other. I loved it.

 

Interviewer: Did you enjoy your time and experience in Tonga?

 

Senitila: Yeah, I I enjoyed it a lot. I guess if we were coming up to this sort of, you know, high school adolescence part, because I had very strict grandparents. And I mean, you could stay and play in the village and that's all fine. But it's sort of when you started to socialize and stuff with friends who lived a bit further away or if we had like school functions that included partying and things like that, we weren’t allowed to go there. So I’d have to tell a few white lies and stuff to attend those stuff. There was some strictness and things around it with my grandparents, but you know, I managed to get my way. But yeah, I think overall I absolutely enjoy the islands.

 

Interviewer: What were the circumstances which brought you to NZ?

 

Senitila: I had my permanent residency to live in New Zealand when I was young because my mum and her siblings managed to come to New Zealand with a scholarship at that time and because they got good jobs, you can be granted permanent residency in that way. And that's how they got their papers to live here. Because I’m my mum’s daughter, I was already granted my permanent residency at a young age. So, I guess the goal for me was that I was always going to end up in New Zealand anyway for higher education. But my grandparents, who raised me when my mom was here studying, they wanted me to finish high school, so at least I know the language and the culture and who I am and my identity as a person before I came to New Zealand to finish off my studies, and that's how I came here.

 

Interviewer: What was your perception of New Zealand like before moving?

 

Senitila: So even though I grew up in Tonga, every summer holiday, I'd spend in New Zealand, so I'd come to visit my mum, and we'd all come. I kind of knew a bit about New Zealand, but just from a holiday perspective we'd come just, you know, during the summer holidays and December then go back to Tonga. Well, I guess my perception was New Zealand, it's amazing country and you know, I want to live here. I can't wait to come here. And then I moved here.

 

Interviewer: It was tougher?

 

Senitila: It was much, much tougher.

 

Interviewer: Yeah, that kind of feeds into the next question of what was the process of coming to New Zealand like?

 

Senitila: So, I'll never forget it because I came here with my grandparents and that was the first time they left for Tonga without me. I've always gone everywhere they went. That was tough. So, when they left me, I was properly depressed for a while because I had to adjust myself to a whole new school. And it wasn't that I grew up with these kids, I went to Mount Roskill grammar school in year 12. And so I didn't know a single person there, having to adjust and for the first time, they weren't any Tongans.

All these different curriculums as well. So having to adjust to everything was different, that freaked me out.

And then so that took a while to sort of adjust to be honest. Especially when you're in Year 12 and 13. Then I went to university and there was a whole other ball game. A lot of it, especially in Uni, was when I started to realise the health inequalities and racism and things like that. And I've experienced them firsthand not only as a medical student, but as a doctor working now. I think that’s one of the negatives. It’s tough, I can tell you, moving to a totally different place. It was a culture shock.

 

Interviewer: Yeah, like emotionally, do you feel like it was draining.

 

Senitila: Very is very draining. I don't think I managed to sleep probably for a long time because I was just stressed about even just going to school.

 

Interviewer: How old were you when you came to New Zealand?

 

Senitila: I came here when I was 17. So massive major culture shock too.

 

Interviewer: So how long have you been in New Zealand so far and what's your profession?

 

Senitila: I have been in New Zealand roughly 15 years now, I think. And my profession at the moment is a doctor.

 

Interviewer: Do you feel like it got better from New Zealand, or do you think you still wished you were still in Tonga?

 

Senitila:  I think things have gotten better now. I guess one of those qualities that I’m happy that I have is that I can adjust quite easily to things. Once I got the hang of how it worked around here, I’ve adapted better and I'm actually quite glad that I'm here and with them obviously the opportunities I have getting into medical school and now being a doctor and being able to serve people. It's an amazing honor and a privilege and I’m so grateful.

 

Interviewer: What made you want to do medicine?

 

Senitila: Well, that’s a good question, I don’t think there was a particular moment where I was sweet, I'm doing medicine. I think I was almost in a way because I come from a family of doctors. I think I was already raised and geared towards that way as a child, so I don’t know there was a point where I was like “Yep, I’m going to be a doctor”. I think it was just seeing firsthand within my family what they do, and I just thought, oh, that's, you know, that's a good career. And then my grandfather has always been a driver of us being able to serve people and I thought it is a profession to serve people. So I thought I’d just do medicine.

 

Interviewer: So, what do you think was the most like difficult part about assimilating to New Zealand like we've had some like Adriana tell us, it was the weather because they're in Colombia, it's warm well here it gets cold. And so, I'm just wondering what is that for you?

 

Senitila: Yeah, absolutely the weather. The winter in Tonga is like New Zealand summer, so having to come to New Zealand and having to wake up in the morning, especially in winter, almost broke me. It was cold. And so, the weather was one of them. I think also language would be another issue. I mean we did speak English on the island, but you always sort of communicated in Tongan majority of the time to people around you, unless you were at school but having to come here and fully change. We sort of had a weird type of accent when you come from Tonga because we watch a lot of American programs and what I've noticed is Pacific Island people that had grown up in the Pacific and came here at an older age have an Americanish accent. Then I had to change that because I was getting mocked with that and so I had to stand there and practice. So, the accent that I have right now is one I had to practice to change to avoid being bullied.

 

Interviewer: Did you feel like there were cultural barriers?

 

Senitila: Absolutely, cultural barriers were there as well, I think. Yeah, it was a huge adjustment. I mean, you know, the culture here in New Zealand is, you know, obviously in the European type, whereas in Tonga, it's a very traditional type. There was a big shock to me. In Tonga you’d never see people hold hands, you know, couples or girlfriends do that in islands. Here I was like, “Oh my gosh, what are they doing? Aren’t they embarrassed” so yeah. But yeah, culture was one of that.

 

Interviewer: At least, there's more Tongans in New Zealand. So, did you feel like you were able to integrate into the community?

 

Senitila: Yeah, easily integrated because I already had a lot of family here in New Zealand and so they had their own connections. It was very easy to connect within our Tongan community. I immediately got myself involved, especially when I had finished high school and got into Med school. I involved myself in a lot of mentoring and tutoring stuff for the Tongans here. So yeah, no issues at all. And it was probably one of the big components for me feeling like I am at home away from home, was my community.

 

Interviewer: Do you like there's anything else that helps you to adapt living here?

 

Senitila: Yeah, so not only family, but when I went to medical school, so I did med school here in Auckland and the good thing about Auckland is we have what we called the MAPAS scheme. Māori Pacific admission scheme. So the unit at the medical school had their own sort of, you know, admission scheme for us in terms of trying to bridge health inequities and inequalities in New Zealand. And so, we already were put in a group with people with sort of similar pacific people to start off with similar background, similar struggles. And these are the people that got me through medical school. They are literally friends that have become my family. They're are literally like my siblings. I have family, but definitely those people in university have become my family.

 

Interviewer: Did you feel like high school was more of a struggle than university life?

 

Senitila: Yeah, high school was definitely a struggle for me, I hated it.  I only had two years to try and adjust to the New Zealand curriculum and then trying to get scholarships and get the grades to get into university. So it was stressful. But then once I got to uni and that sort of things kicked in and I surrounded myself with the right people, we all supported each other, and we got through.

 

Interviewer: Looking back, did you feel the government like made the process of immigrating here easy, or do you feel like there's a bit of a challenge, like with others with Grace and Peter Lim, they had some struggles with, like getting like residency and getting a visa. For Gagan, he struggled with getting the skilled worker permit because they were trying to come here but then they couldn't qualify because he was working in India.

 

Senitila: Personally for myself, I had no issues at all because my permanent residency was granted to me as a child. Probably it would be whether my mum had an issue with immigration. I don't think she did, because I think because they came and studied here to go to sort of, you know, a skilled job that New Zealand was wanting and so them getting their residency, I don't think was a problem. But for me personally, I had no issues with them as a child.

 

Interviewer: What do you feel like you learned through the process of trying to learn how to live in New Zealand?

 

Senitila: I've learned lots. I think one of them is being able to have that resilience and adjustment to be able to not only just change with a different type of culture, but be able to, you know, still stay true to yourself. But then still be able to adjust to what’s around you. I've learned to be mindful of other people and you know other cultures because that's one of the good things about living in Auckland is very multicultural. Well, I've learned very much to be grateful and appreciative of what I have and it allowed me to look back to the islands and be able to reflect on how it was like back there and how the foundation that was laid in terms of working hard and just knowing that we're here to serve people and then that being that foundation that's led me to where I am now. I don't think it's a coincidence. Yeah, I think it all this was meant to be and so I've learned to be grateful and appreciative of what I have in life.

 

Interviewer: Earlier you spoke on that like racism, you felt like was a like a barrier or a problem that you encountered, like where? So, did you, did you encounter? That was like high school or university, or in the workspace?

 

Senitila: Where I think I think majority of it, I’ve felt in the workplace absolutely. Because at the moment I'm doing general surgery, which is obviously something that is mainly geared towards men. The specialty and the whole training process behind it. And so, it's very, very rarely do you see a Pacific person trying to do general surgery, let alone a Pacific woman. So having to try and navigate myself in that space is very hard, and it wasn't just sort of, you know, unconscious bias. I've had people be racist to me in my face. You know it was very, very difficult. But in high school, not so much. Because then I think I didn't really sort of notice a lot of that because I was just trying to, to survive. I was in survival mode. Just trying to get through the day. When I got to medical school, not too much, because you're still confined and protected within the space of lectures. You're still behind lectures in lecture theatres and you know, you don't really actually have stepped out into the world real world just yet. Then I started working and that's when it hit me.

 

Interviewer: Yeah, it seems quite seems to be. Quite a common experience like workplace racism, since we have been here it’s a really big thing here.

 

Senitila: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you'd think in, in medicine in the 21st century, you know, it'll be a bit better. But I can tell you firsthand it is not. Yeah, especially within surgery, pretty bad. I guess you still have to navigate yourself through it because at the end of the day, I can’t change that myself.

 

Interviewer: So, if you could go back in time before you came here, what do you think you tell yourself?

 

Senitila: I would tell myself, that I got this. That I am amazing, and that I'm great because a lot of time what I have is impostor syndrome, where consciously I know, that I'm great but I always doubt myself and it's probably you know stems from somewhere or something that happened to me. But if I could go back, I'd tell myself that I'm amazing and I'm great, you know, whatever I'm going to do.

 

Interviewer: Well if there’s something that would prove you are pretty awesome it’s going through the kind of adversity you faced *laughs*.

 

Senitila: I’ll take it! *laughs*

 

Well, what do you think your favorite and least favorite things are about living in New Zealand? I know food and family have been common ones, so what do you think?

 

Senitila: I think. My most favorite thing about being in New Zealand is the opportunity that I have right now. To be a doctor and to serve. I’m not saying the job is amazing and its great and I love it, but I just think that I'm able to hold a position of some sort of power with the title of being a doctor and but then the responsibility you have as well to the community is great. That's great. And I enjoy that. Yeah, that I really do enjoy, and trying to figure out how you can help change, you know the outcome, the health outcomes of this issue, especially with Pacific people is one of the things that I do enjoy. It triggers my mind and I love that.

The worst thing about being in New Zealand is it is so expensive *laughs*. I say that because right now it is so expensive that interest rates with my mortgage have gone up and it's insane. I hate it because it’s so expensive, yet here we are.

 

Interviewer: What do you think you miss?

 

Senitila: I miss everybody. I miss my family. I miss the food. I miss well, my grandparents had raised me and unfortunately my grandfather passed away during COVID, but my grandma is still in Tonga, so I am literally missing her every day. I do see her every now and then, but it's not the same. I just miss being able to roll up to the neighbors when I'm hungry and just be like, “Yo, whatever you guys got” and like one of the amazing things that may be so minute to other people. Say I went to make a drink at home, and I ran out of sugar and there's no sugar at the shop. I just call out to the neighbors and “Yo, you guys got some sugar?” and then they're like, you know, whatever they have, they'll half it and give it to us. Yeah, just no cost, no nothing. And I think it's just that sort of unconditional love that you have just within your village. Yeah, you don't even. You're not even family. Yeah, like you're just family based on the, you know, the foundation of love. That's what I really miss it.

 

Interviewer: Do you feel like there isn't a foundation of love here?

 

Senitila: I think there is. It's just that I wouldn't be able to knock on my neighbors and be like, “Yo, can I have some sugar?”

 

Interviewer:  It's like it’s hidden under a few layers.

 

Senitila: Yeah, it's hidden under a few layers. Where I’m staying at the moment, our little neighborhood along, because we share this common driveway and we sort of, you know, one of them will have food left over it and it's awesome. But it's still not the same, it's just it's a different type of feeling that I had back at home.

 

Interviewer: Yeah, it definitely feels like there’s a difference between showing up to someone’s house as a friend, versus going to someone’s place when it’s almost like a business interaction. Everything feels too official compared to just being able to show up and be like “What’s up”.

 

Senitila: I think you can feel the difference.

 

Interviewer: What do you think life would be like if you never left?

 

Senitila: I think that’s a very difficult question. Probably would have ended up doing medicine in Fiji, maybe. The medical school and stuff are in the university in Fiji I'd probably be working in Tonga, hopefully still a doctor. But I think things would be different.

 

Interviewer: Do you think there's a lot less opportunity in Tonga?

 

Senitila: Very much so because the unfortunate thing is that the South Pacific, you can't take that degree elsewhere. So even if I did graduate, you know from with any degree in Tonga. And I wanted to move to New Zealand, I'd have to sort of redo the whole thing. So, I say for example, even if I did med school and graduated as a doctor from Fiji, I could not bring that here, I would have to reset a whole set of new exams and start again.

 

Interviewer: Do you think that’s a flawed system?

 

Senitila: I think so, but then again, it's just the curriculum in high school within the islands is different from the ones here. It wasn't so before so, when Villiami (Senitila’s uncle) was here was in Tonga, they had the same system. It was called the university entrance exam, which is literally the curriculum in New Zealand, was the curriculum in Tonga and so they could just transfer here very easily, but that stopped a few years later. So the island's just sort of done their own curriculum and I think that's that was a difficulty in crossing over to here. But yes, limited opportunities in the islands than there are here.

 

Interviewer: That's all the questions I got. Thank you so much for doing the interview.